My thoughts on the Rapture

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Wes Hudson
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:03 am

My thoughts on the Rapture

Post by Wes Hudson » Wed May 02, 2018 6:03 am

Matthew 24:29-31 says Immediately AFTER the tribulation, Christ returns and gathers His elect.

Let's look at I Thessalonians 4:15-17:

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Fact: Those who are alive will NOT precede those who have died. The Dead will rise FIRST.

Revelation 20:4,5 - And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the FIRST resurrection.

The FIRST resurrection takes place AFTER the tribulation. This is after people have been beheaded. This is after the mark of the beast.
Since the rapture occurs after the resurrection according to Thessalonians, the rapture must be after the tribulation just as stated in Matthew 24.

II Thessalonians 2:1-4 - Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

What is the subject? The return of our Lord and our GATHERING (Rapture). When does it take place? Not until there is a falling away first, and the man of sin is revealed.

So far, we have several verses that plainly state the gathering (Rapture, Harpazo) takes place after the tribulation. Is there any reason to doubt what these scriptures say?

To Highlight:

Matthew 24:29-31
Immediately AFTER the tribulation …. they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven ….And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 -Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be REVEALED, the son of perdition

Matthew 24:15 -When ye therefore shall SEE the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet…

1 Corinthians 15:51,52
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST trump

The "mystery" is when we are all changed. When is the LAST trump?

Revelation 10:7 - But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

As the seventh trump begins to sound, the "mystery" will be finished. We will all be changed.

John 17:15 - I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

Proverbs 10:30 - The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth.

Acts 14:22 - Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Wes Hudson
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:03 am

Re: My thoughts on the Rapture

Post by Wes Hudson » Wed May 02, 2018 6:04 am

Can Christ return at any moment?

The disciples were told to tarry in Jerusalem until Holy Spirit came. They did not expect an “any moment rapture”; They expected Holy Spirit to come.

Jesus appeared to Paul and told him that he would preach in Rome. Did Paul expect to preach in Rome, or did he expect to be raptured any minute now?

Jesus told Peter that he would die an old man. Did Peter expect to die of old age like Jesus said, or be raptured?

Jesus said the church in Smyrna would suffer persecution ten days.
From the time Christ ascended until the end of the first century, no one expected a rapture.

There are prerequisites to His return (Matthew 24:25).
He said we will see the abomination spoken of by Daniel (Matthew 24:15, Mark 13:14)
He said the man of sin will be revealed (II Thessalonians 2:3)
He said people would betray each other just because they’re offended (Matt.24:10)
And finally, the Sun, Moon & Stars will be dark (Ezekiel 32:7 | Joel 2:1-10,16 | Joel 3:14,15 | Amos 5:18 | Isaiah 13:6-10 | Zephaniah 1:14,15 | Matthew 24:29-31 | Joel 2:28-32 | Acts 2:20 | Revelation 6:12)

Although these are not ALL the prerequisites, we can at least see that the rapture can not be imminent.

1 Thessalonians 5:1-4 - But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Revelation 16:15-18 - Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed [is] he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, [and] so great.

I Thessalonians chapter 5 says Christ comes as a thief in the night to those who are not watching. Those who are His are not taken by surprise when He arrives because they have studied the scriptures and know when this event is scheduled to take place. They didn't even NEED for him to write to them. They already knew this.

In Revelation chapter 16, Christ announces that He is YET to come as a thief. Then the armies are gathered at Armageddon. The final bowl of wrath is then poured out, and it’s all over.
Did you see that? – Jesus Himself announced in Matthew 24 that He would not be here until after the tribulation. Jesus Himself announced in Revelation 16 that He would not be arriving until the time of Armageddon & the seventh vial.

Wes Hudson
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:03 am

Re: My thoughts on the Rapture

Post by Wes Hudson » Wed May 02, 2018 6:05 am

In Daniel 12:7 – Christ Himself stated that this period of tribulation would be for a time, times, and a half.

The fact is, Mark 13:20 says “And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.”

If you look at the word “Days” in Greek, it is “hemera”, which means “the interval between sunrise and sunset, of the civil day, or the space of twenty four hours (thus including the night)”
Mark is not saying that it will be any less than 42 months, what he is saying is that the DAY itself will be shortened.

Revelation 8:12 - And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

If the day is cut by a third, and the night likewise, that leaves us with a 16 hour day instead of 24 hours.

Amos 8:9 - And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day:

Luke 21:25 - And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

Isaiah 13:13 - Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

Isaiah 24:1 - Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.

Isaiah 24:20 - The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

Revelation 16:8 - And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.

With the sun scorching men with fire, it’s a good thing the day has been cut short to only 16 hours, or NO flesh would be saved!


Matthew 24:35,36 - Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

What does it say? Heaven and earth shall pass away. When does this happen? No one but the Father knows. It doesn’t say anything about not knowing when His return will be.

As a matter of fact, Luke 12:56 says “Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?”

Revelation 3:3 - Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

If we do NOT watch, he will come as a thief.

I Thess. 5:4 - But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

We may not know the exact day or exact hour because time will be confusing with all the earth tilting and days being shortened to 16 hours, BUT Daniel tells us that Christ returns 1260 days after the AC declares himself god. That is going to give us a pretty precise window. Although we don’t know right now when Christ will return, we WILL know if we WATCH as instructed.

craig.mcelheny
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:13 pm

Re: My thoughts on the Rapture

Post by craig.mcelheny » Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:16 am

Wes, I agree with much of your post! As for the cutting short of those days, I have a different take on it.
I believe Matthew's reference to the shortening of those days in Matt. 24:22 goes back to Daniel, Chapter 12. Daniel gives a broad reference to the time frame of 3.5 years for the Great Tribulation in
Daniel 12:7 (NASB)
"I heard the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, as he raised his right hand and his left toward heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time; and as soon as they finish shattering the power of the holy people, all these events will be completed."

And the key to the shortening of "those days", in my opinion, lies in the phrase in bold letters. This lines up with the "perseverance of the saints" for 42 months by the Antichrist (AC) in Rev. 13:10 and 14:12. Note that it is relative to the Mark of the Beast, which I believe begins when the Son of Destruction takes his seat in the Temple at the mid-point of the Tribulation. Otherwise referred to as the Abomination of Desolation (AoD).

However, Daniel goes on in Chapter 12, to further refine the time frame. He gives us, in verse 10, a clue that this is related to the "perseverance of the saints" by the words, "Many will be purged, purified and refined". Resulting in The Apostasy, in my opinion. Then in verse 11 he gives the figure 1290 days from the AoD. This takes it 30 days beyond the 3.5 lunisolar years (360 days/yr.) for the Great Tribulation. It appears that this is a minimum requirement, because he states, in verse 12, that if you make it to the 1335th day you will be blessed. The implication is that the persecution of the saints by the AC could last up to the 1335th day, but it could also end one day after the 1290th day. At least, that is my take on this Scripture.

Thus, I believe we are given a 45 day window in which the Lord can return for the resurrection, immediately followed by the Rapture in the twinkling of an eye. How else can we be told to look for His return, but not know the day or the hour? Matt. 24:26, to me, has to be taken in a very literal sense.

I'm wondering what you do with the 2,300 days in Daniel 8? If you start it from the AoD, as I do, you are left with a period of 2.8 years after the Tribulation. This gives rise to allocating the 2.8 years to the Day of the Lord, or the Great Day of Their Wrath (Rev. 6:17). The Day of the Lord begins immediately after the Rapture, in my view. I would like to attach a figure to help illustrate.

Image

Wes Hudson
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:03 am

Re: My thoughts on the Rapture

Post by Wes Hudson » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:09 pm

Not sure how you attached the image, but it isn't showing up on my end.

I usually upload images to imgur.com and link to them that way.

As far as your thoughts on it, I have looked in depth at all the numbers given in Daniel, and agree that it can seem to get confusing when coming up with a coherent timeline. I've considered all the dates mentioned, and not just extending the 30 days beyond the 1260, but having that 30 days take place immediately prior to the 1260.

I was introduced to that possibility by the late Dewey Bruton in 2009.

When I get a little extra time, I'll upload a few of those images.

Wes Hudson
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:03 am

Re: My thoughts on the Rapture

Post by Wes Hudson » Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:50 am

Okay, here is the common, basic timeline:
Image

You have the 30 days, plus 45 days following the end of the tribulation.

Then you have this one:
Image

In this, the sacrifice is stopped 30 days prior to the Abomination of Desolation taking place.


And you asked about the 2300 days, which brings me to this one:
Image

One interpretation, is that it is 2300 literal days, while another is this:
In Daniel 8:14, the King James says 2300 days, but the Hebrew says "2300 ereb boqer.
Ereb is translated in the KJV as days, while boqer is left untranslated.

The actual meaning of Ereb is evening, and boqer means morning.
In the previous verse, Daniel was asking how long the vision of the sacrifices would be.
There is an evening and morning sacrifice. That's two sacrifices per day.
If there are a total of 2300 sacrifices, that would span 1150 days.

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